The Big Whale: In a few years, you have become one of the leading figures in the fight for privacy, which has also brought you many threats. How do you deal with this situation?

Chelsea Manning: I'm living it pretty well. Obviously it's not easy, I've been under a lot of scrutiny over the last few years, but I know it was inevitable. I've been under a lot of scrutiny over the last few years, but I know it was inevitable. The release of my book (Readme.txt) last year also gave me a lot of exposure. I've done a lot of speaking engagements to tell my story, WikiLeaks, prison, and the fight I'm fighting.

Now I'm trying to take a step back, to be less present in the media, on social networks, to focus on the fight that drives me every day: the protection of privacy.

What has changed the most on the Internet since 2010 and your arrest?

Normal people now use it every day. I still remember the time before I went to prison, I was kind of the "geek", even in the military. The one who spends her days on her computer or smartphone.

Today, this is the case for billions of people, which is very worrying because behind this frenetic use, it is the whole private life of people that is threatened.

The Internet we know today is much more opaque and fragmented than in the 1990s. Access is simpler, but in reality people understand it much less.

Aren't people free to do what they want?

That's the whole problem. People think they are free, but they are not.

You have to keep in mind that the Tech giants mobilize all possible means to make you addicted. It's a huge business. The goal is to keep your attention as much as possible and to capture your data. So, yes, people are free to do what they want, but that's a view of the mind. Especially among younger people. I think that in the coming decades, social networks will be considered as the new tobacco industry...

What are for you the main threats on the Internet. The States or the Tech giants?

I think it's clearly the tech giants for the reasons mentioned above. These companies have become inescapable, they are part of the very structure of the Internet. Obviously, in some countries, governments are threats, but globally the problem is on the side of the companies.

Which companies do you have in mind?

The power of companies on the American West Coast, especially in Silicon Valley, is impressive. The same is true for China, which can rely on a few giants.

You are talking about the United States and China. What about Europe?

Europe is not in the same situation, since the American giants also occupy an important place there. Europe is more in a defensive situation and its only guardian, the European regulator, does not have the means to impose its will.

Should the anonymity of the early days of the Internet be restored?

This is our goal, although I know it is far from simple. The Internet carries with it an ideal of anonymous sharing and collaboration.

We have lost sight of these notions, especially in favor of an Internet based on surveillance. The new tools of Web3 must allow us to regain control.

Is it for this reason that you joined the Nym project as an advisor?

I was first consulted as a security specialist and analyzed the robustness and viability of the project whose objective is to protect online communications. I looked at the mixnet system (everything is explained here), at the use of the network.

What appealed to me very quickly was that this is a system that I have been advocating for years. I really believe in this project and that's why I decided to get even more involved and become an advisor.

The mixnet is a concept imagined by the cryptographer David Chaum in the 1980s. Why did Nym take so long to emerge?

Because we were still missing the incentive system to use these technologies. With Nym, you have an incentive to protect your privacy and the privacy of others. If you are a node on the network, you will be paid in tokens to transfer packets of information. It's a virtuous operation like Bitcoin.

Nym is a project related to the Web3 universe. What do you think about cryptomoney, and bitcoin in particular?

I'm still pretty skeptical about cryptos when it comes to tokenization of assets or financial applications. I've always taken this approach, and what happened recently with the collapse of the FTX exchange platform shows how many scams there are still out there.

I think that blockchain and cryptography have a wide range of uses, not just financial. In particular, they are very good tools for privacy protection. Tokens allow you to create incentive systems.

You didn't mention bitcoin when answering the question. Why not? What do you think about it?

Bitcoin is the first of the cryptocurrencies. I was one of the first users of bitcoin in 2009 and 2010, so I'm very attached to it. But I see bitcoin primarily as a proof of concept. The technology behind bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is very interesting, but I don't like the financial approach behind it.

Many projects work on privacy, but you decided to work with Nym. Why did you decide to work with Nym?

Nym is a separate solution. They use the mixnet in a particularly complex way. No one could manage to break their system and collect user data.

Their technology is really powerful. In the years to come, it may be the only technology to protect our privacy, especially when we see the progress made by artificial intelligence.

What do you think about artificial intelligence?

It's as exciting as it is scary. My background is as a data scientist, so I've done a lot of work on these topics, especially when I was still in the US Army. The real question is who controls these tools, who feeds them data.

Tech giants are working a lot on these issues. You have seen what Meta, Google and Microsoft, which has just invested in OpenAI, are investing in these subjects. China is also very present.

Don't you think that Web3 and artificial intelligence will allow the Tech giants to keep the leadership on the Internet?

These two technologies are similar in that they are based on mathematics. That's why there are so many people in Web3 who are interested in AI, and vice versa.

But I definitely prefer crypto because it is a weapon for individuals. Crypto, along with encryption, will help protect against what artificial intelligence could bring in terms of privacy threats, data collection, identity theft or scams of any kind.

What do you think about a network like Tor?

I think in the long run solutions like Tor will be a bit outdated. They're interesting tools, but things change quickly. Cryptography is going to be the way to go. I'm not saying Nym will be the only solution, but we'll have to raise the standards.

Do you think Snowden is wrong to recommend a messenger like Signal?

Of course not, I use Signal every day! Signal is mixnet enabled, except that it's not by default. It's the same for Telegram.

Don't you think that projects like Nym will push states to invest even more in surveillance tools?

They will do it no matter what! I want it to be as expensive as possible for them, to spend a fortune to get my emails back.

What do you think are the best tools for the general public?

I think VPNs are very good tools. I won't recommend one in particular, but it's essential to use them. And then there are simple things to do like changing your password regularly. Not every day, but about ten times a year is better than nothing! You can also close all the accounts you don't use.

Has your opinion of Julian Assange changed?

As you know, I have a legal dispute with Julian Assange that has been going on for years. I have been prevented from revealing a certain amount of information.

How do you see Edward Snowden? Everyone sees him only as a hero. Do you have a more critical view?

I'm not here to judge anyone. Edward Snowden made very complicated decisions that few people could have made.

Are you optimistic about the future of privacy?

Generally I'm rather pessimistic, but I think that the emergence of Web3, and all its tools, is an important source of hope.

How do we make people aware of privacy issues?

They are aware of it, they just don't do it.

So where does this discrepancy come from?

Because it's complicated, plain and simple. I know because I've been dealing with these issues for years. It takes time to protect your privacy, and the tools are not yet simple enough for everyone to use. It's much easier to do nothing.